Can a creature tell when it has been affected by a Divination wizard's Portent?Will my party function without...

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Can a creature tell when it has been affected by a Divination wizard's Portent?


Will my party function without a healer?There appears to be significant overlap between Divination and other schools. What truly defines a divination spell?How does nondetection interact with School of Divination's Portent?How can I minimize the risk of mind control with magic items?Can you use Lucky (feat) followed by Portent to replace a roll that's already been made?When can a Wild Magic sorcerer use Bend Luck if he can't see the die?How does a Divination Wizard's Portent work when they are not sure if/what roll the target may be making?For the Divination wizard's Portent feature, how do “glimpses of the future” manifest?Can a creature with a Mind Blank spell active on itself target itself with Encode Thoughts?Is a shield guardian affected by demonic madness in the Out of the Abyss adventure?






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$begingroup$


Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):




  • One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.


  • Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.


  • Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.


  • If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.


  • I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.



Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?



If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...










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  • 1




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    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
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4












$begingroup$


Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):




  • One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.


  • Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.


  • Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.


  • If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.


  • I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.



Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?



If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...










share|improve this question









New contributor




DM_with_secrets is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    1 hour ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$


Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):




  • One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.


  • Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.


  • Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.


  • If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.


  • I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.



Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?



If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...










share|improve this question









New contributor




DM_with_secrets is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Consider the following situation (from my perspective as the DM):




  • One of my PCs casts a spell on an NPC (or monster etc.) which forces the target to make, say, a Wisdom save, or else be frightened.


  • Before the NPC rolls for his save, the divination wizard PC announces that she will use a low Portent die to give him a very low score on the save.


  • Unknown to either the PCs or the players, this NPC has a magical item that prevents him from being frightened, so regardless of the roll of the die, he will be unaffected by the spell.


  • If I announce that the NPC is not frightened, the players (and PCs) will know that the NPC either has a very high Wisdom modifier, or has some item or ability that prevents him from being frightened.


  • I would rather the players and PCs did not know this. Also, the NPC would rather the PCs did not know this.



Can the NPC tell that he has been "Portented"?



If so, he could choose to pretend that he had failed the save i.e. pretend to be frightened. Depending on the circumstances, this might be preferable for the NPC to giving away the existence of his magical item. It might also be preferable for me as the DM, given that I want to keep this item a secret...







dnd-5e class-feature wizard divination






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edited 46 mins ago









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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
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  • 1




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    Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
    $endgroup$
    – Someone_Evil
    1 hour ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Welcome to RPG.SE! Take the tour if you haven't already and see the help center if you need more guidance. Good Luck and Happy Gaming!
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– Someone_Evil
1 hour ago




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3 Answers
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9












$begingroup$

No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"



Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a Portent die, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.



This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:




Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.




Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so.



Fear immunity is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item



To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    4












    $begingroup$

    No.



    The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. It's debatable whether even the Diviner knows about the Portent.



    However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.



    An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell the PC is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$





















      2












      $begingroup$

      Probably not.



      To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:




      Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



      Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




      As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.



      It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      Kyceti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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        3 Answers
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        3 Answers
        3






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        active

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        active

        oldest

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        9












        $begingroup$

        No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"



        Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a Portent die, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.



        This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:




        Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.




        Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so.



        Fear immunity is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item



        To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$


















          9












          $begingroup$

          No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"



          Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a Portent die, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.



          This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:




          Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.




          Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so.



          Fear immunity is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item



          To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$
















            9












            9








            9





            $begingroup$

            No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"



            Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a Portent die, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.



            This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:




            Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.




            Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so.



            Fear immunity is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item



            To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.






            share|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            No, there is no way to know that Portent was "used"



            Portent is an unusual feature in that it leverages the distinction between the player and their character. Obviously, it is the player's choice when to replace a roll with a Portent die, but within the fiction, this does not correspond to any action or even any thought or intent on the character's part. All the character does is witness the fact that the glimpse of the future they received earlier that day has indeed come to pass.



            This interpretation is supported by the first sentence of the feature, which is the only part that describes how it works rather than the mechanics of using it:




            Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness.




            Also note that no action or reaction of any kind is required to use the feature. If Portent represented an active manipulation of probability by the diviner, it would make more sense for it to require a reaction to do so.



            Fear immunity is not a dead giveaway for your secret magic item



            To address your specific problem, immunity to fear is not a terribly rare effect, so that alone isn't necessarily going to tip off your players that a special magic item is in play. Furthermore, if your players do infer that a magic item is protecting NPC from fear, they will most likely assume that the item does that and nothing more. From your question, it seems like the item in question probably does a good deal more than simply protect from fear. But if you're really worried about your players figuring it out, I think the best advice is to make sure you can still tell an interesting story if they do so, even if it's different from the story you had planned.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 1 min ago

























            answered 1 hour ago









            Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson

            12.8k24395




            12.8k24395

























                4












                $begingroup$

                No.



                The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. It's debatable whether even the Diviner knows about the Portent.



                However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.



                An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell the PC is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$


















                  4












                  $begingroup$

                  No.



                  The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. It's debatable whether even the Diviner knows about the Portent.



                  However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.



                  An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell the PC is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$
















                    4












                    4








                    4





                    $begingroup$

                    No.



                    The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. It's debatable whether even the Diviner knows about the Portent.



                    However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.



                    An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell the PC is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.






                    share|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    No.



                    The Portent feature doesn't have any visible or otherwise detectable in-world component. It's debatable whether even the Diviner knows about the Portent.



                    However, your NPC might be able to tell which spell is being cast.



                    An optional rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything allows a creature to use a reaction to make an Arcana check to know which spell the PC is casting (DC is equal to 15 plus the spell's level). You could make this roll behind the screen to allow the NPC to know that the spell would normally cause fear, an effect they're immune to, and then act as if they're frightened.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 1 hour ago

























                    answered 1 hour ago









                    ApocalispApocalisp

                    3,0131038




                    3,0131038























                        2












                        $begingroup$

                        Probably not.



                        To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:




                        Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



                        Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




                        As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.



                        It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.






                        share|improve this answer










                        New contributor




                        Kyceti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.






                        $endgroup$


















                          2












                          $begingroup$

                          Probably not.



                          To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:




                          Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



                          Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




                          As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.



                          It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.






                          share|improve this answer










                          New contributor




                          Kyceti is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.






                          $endgroup$
















                            2












                            2








                            2





                            $begingroup$

                            Probably not.



                            To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:




                            Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



                            Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




                            As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.



                            It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.






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                            $endgroup$



                            Probably not.



                            To understand the workings of the feature, here is the description of the Divination wizard's Portent feature from p. 116 of the Player's Handbook:




                            Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, glimpses of the future begin to press in on your awareness. When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



                            Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




                            As seen from here, the Divination Wizard doesn't actually alter the future but instead sees glimpses of it. Since all rolls of a die are independent of each other and equally likely to land on any of the numbers 1 through 20, the act of you replacing a creature's roll with a Portent die isn't equivalent to, say, imposing disadvantage on a roll, since what has essentially happened is that the die roll for that particular moment was already rolled when the Divination Wizard took a long rest.



                            It's ultimately up to how you roleplay it as to how powerful this can become, however. An intelligent creature, like a goblin, might notice that a certain wizard is of the divination school by the nature of their spells, and would realise that diviners can see glimpses into the future. As a result, it may logically pretend to fail saving throws against conditions despite immunity to them to throw off the players.







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