If the DM rolls initiative once for a group of monsters, how do end-of-turn effects work?Can a Familiar aid a...
How do I hide Chekhov's Gun?
How to make healing in an exploration game interesting
How to terminate ping <dest> &
How difficult is it to simply disable/disengage the MCAS on Boeing 737 Max 8 & 9 Aircraft?
Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?
A sequence that has integer values for prime indexes only:
Can a druid choose the size of its wild shape beast?
My Graph Theory Students
Unexpected result from ArcLength
Have researchers managed to "reverse time"? If so, what does that mean for physics?
How could a scammer know the apps on my phone / iTunes account?
SOQL: Populate a Literal List in WHERE IN Clause
How to explain that I do not want to visit a country due to personal safety concern?
Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor breaks the "no parallel octaves" rule?
Awsome yet unlucky path traversal
Most cost effective thermostat setting: consistent temperature vs. lowest temperature possible
Brexit - No Deal Rejection
Why doesn't using two cd commands in bash script execute the second command?
Professor being mistaken for a grad student
Happy pi day, everyone!
How to read the value of this capacitor?
PTIJ: Who should I vote for? (21st Knesset Edition)
Sailing the cryptic seas
Look at your watch and tell me what time is it. vs Look at your watch and tell me what time it is
If the DM rolls initiative once for a group of monsters, how do end-of-turn effects work?
Can a Familiar aid a Rogue's Sneak Attack?Are immobile objects paralyzed?If I cast a spell through my Vulture familiar, do I attack with advantage thanks to its Pack Tactics trait?Can swashbucklers sneak attack with disadvantage?Does the Pack Tactics monster special trait really only apply to one attack roll?Is a mount considered an “ally” for the purpose of Pack Tactics?If my kobold uses a familiar to deliver Shocking Grasp, do I roll with advantage thanks to Pack Tactics?Does Eldritch Strike apply to a spell cast before the attack?How much does adding the Pack Tactics trait to this homebrew monster affect its CR?Does the kobold player race feature, Pack Tactics, give ranged attacks advantage?
$begingroup$
A wizard rounds a corner to find two kobolds brandishing their weapons. Roll initiative!
The DM determines that neither side is surprised. The DM then makes a single initiative roll (10) for the two kobolds, since they are identical creatures (PHB, p. 189). The wizard has a great roll (15) and goes first.
The wizard decides that it's better to be safe than sorry and upcasts hold person to 3rd-level, targeting both kobolds. One kobold fails the save and becomes paralyzed, but the other (miraculously) succeeds. The wizard now feels confident in their success and closes to within 5 feet of both kobolds.
It's time for the kobolds to act. Kobolds have the Pack Tactics trait, which grants them advantage on attack rolls against a creature if a non-incapacitated ally is within 5 feet of that creature. One of the kobolds is paralyzed, which means it is also incapacitated. Hold person grants an additional save at the end of the affected kobold's turns.
Each kobold should have their own turn, but does one turn complete before the other, possibly allowing the paralyzed kobold to save vs hold person? In short, is there any way that the non-paralyzed kobold gains advantage from Pack Tactics on this initiative count this round?
dnd-5e spells combat saving-throw initiative
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A wizard rounds a corner to find two kobolds brandishing their weapons. Roll initiative!
The DM determines that neither side is surprised. The DM then makes a single initiative roll (10) for the two kobolds, since they are identical creatures (PHB, p. 189). The wizard has a great roll (15) and goes first.
The wizard decides that it's better to be safe than sorry and upcasts hold person to 3rd-level, targeting both kobolds. One kobold fails the save and becomes paralyzed, but the other (miraculously) succeeds. The wizard now feels confident in their success and closes to within 5 feet of both kobolds.
It's time for the kobolds to act. Kobolds have the Pack Tactics trait, which grants them advantage on attack rolls against a creature if a non-incapacitated ally is within 5 feet of that creature. One of the kobolds is paralyzed, which means it is also incapacitated. Hold person grants an additional save at the end of the affected kobold's turns.
Each kobold should have their own turn, but does one turn complete before the other, possibly allowing the paralyzed kobold to save vs hold person? In short, is there any way that the non-paralyzed kobold gains advantage from Pack Tactics on this initiative count this round?
dnd-5e spells combat saving-throw initiative
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A wizard rounds a corner to find two kobolds brandishing their weapons. Roll initiative!
The DM determines that neither side is surprised. The DM then makes a single initiative roll (10) for the two kobolds, since they are identical creatures (PHB, p. 189). The wizard has a great roll (15) and goes first.
The wizard decides that it's better to be safe than sorry and upcasts hold person to 3rd-level, targeting both kobolds. One kobold fails the save and becomes paralyzed, but the other (miraculously) succeeds. The wizard now feels confident in their success and closes to within 5 feet of both kobolds.
It's time for the kobolds to act. Kobolds have the Pack Tactics trait, which grants them advantage on attack rolls against a creature if a non-incapacitated ally is within 5 feet of that creature. One of the kobolds is paralyzed, which means it is also incapacitated. Hold person grants an additional save at the end of the affected kobold's turns.
Each kobold should have their own turn, but does one turn complete before the other, possibly allowing the paralyzed kobold to save vs hold person? In short, is there any way that the non-paralyzed kobold gains advantage from Pack Tactics on this initiative count this round?
dnd-5e spells combat saving-throw initiative
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
$endgroup$
A wizard rounds a corner to find two kobolds brandishing their weapons. Roll initiative!
The DM determines that neither side is surprised. The DM then makes a single initiative roll (10) for the two kobolds, since they are identical creatures (PHB, p. 189). The wizard has a great roll (15) and goes first.
The wizard decides that it's better to be safe than sorry and upcasts hold person to 3rd-level, targeting both kobolds. One kobold fails the save and becomes paralyzed, but the other (miraculously) succeeds. The wizard now feels confident in their success and closes to within 5 feet of both kobolds.
It's time for the kobolds to act. Kobolds have the Pack Tactics trait, which grants them advantage on attack rolls against a creature if a non-incapacitated ally is within 5 feet of that creature. One of the kobolds is paralyzed, which means it is also incapacitated. Hold person grants an additional save at the end of the affected kobold's turns.
Each kobold should have their own turn, but does one turn complete before the other, possibly allowing the paralyzed kobold to save vs hold person? In short, is there any way that the non-paralyzed kobold gains advantage from Pack Tactics on this initiative count this round?
dnd-5e spells combat saving-throw initiative
dnd-5e spells combat saving-throw initiative
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
edited 3 hours ago
Chris Starnes
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
asked 3 hours ago
Chris StarnesChris Starnes
3,1921722
3,1921722
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The monsters act in an order of the DM's choosing.
This is implied in the rules for Initiative in the Basic Rules (emphasis mine):
...When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same tim.... the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures...
In the full context of that rules passage, the DM decides ties among creatures who roll the same initiative count. When rolling initiative once for a group of monsters, the entire group shares the same initiative count. Therefore, the DM can decide the order that those monsters act, since they are effectively tied.
Thus, the DM will probably decide either the most favorable order for their monsters or the most satisfying order for the agency of the players. In your example, it would be in the monsters' favor to let the kobold save out of paralysis first to possibly allow its ally to leverage Pack Tactics; it would be in the wizard's favor to reverse that order. Either is within the DM's purview, and the DM should decide based on the pace of the encounter and what works best for the table and the group.
Note that the DM might decide that order dynamically each round or might decide it statically once at the start of combat. The rules can be read to support either style. However, in my experience as a DM, it's very hard to remember a static order among a bunch of identical creatures and is in general not worth the effort as long as you don't disproportionately favor the monsters over the players.
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143265%2fif-the-dm-rolls-initiative-once-for-a-group-of-monsters-how-do-end-of-turn-effe%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The monsters act in an order of the DM's choosing.
This is implied in the rules for Initiative in the Basic Rules (emphasis mine):
...When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same tim.... the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures...
In the full context of that rules passage, the DM decides ties among creatures who roll the same initiative count. When rolling initiative once for a group of monsters, the entire group shares the same initiative count. Therefore, the DM can decide the order that those monsters act, since they are effectively tied.
Thus, the DM will probably decide either the most favorable order for their monsters or the most satisfying order for the agency of the players. In your example, it would be in the monsters' favor to let the kobold save out of paralysis first to possibly allow its ally to leverage Pack Tactics; it would be in the wizard's favor to reverse that order. Either is within the DM's purview, and the DM should decide based on the pace of the encounter and what works best for the table and the group.
Note that the DM might decide that order dynamically each round or might decide it statically once at the start of combat. The rules can be read to support either style. However, in my experience as a DM, it's very hard to remember a static order among a bunch of identical creatures and is in general not worth the effort as long as you don't disproportionately favor the monsters over the players.
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The monsters act in an order of the DM's choosing.
This is implied in the rules for Initiative in the Basic Rules (emphasis mine):
...When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same tim.... the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures...
In the full context of that rules passage, the DM decides ties among creatures who roll the same initiative count. When rolling initiative once for a group of monsters, the entire group shares the same initiative count. Therefore, the DM can decide the order that those monsters act, since they are effectively tied.
Thus, the DM will probably decide either the most favorable order for their monsters or the most satisfying order for the agency of the players. In your example, it would be in the monsters' favor to let the kobold save out of paralysis first to possibly allow its ally to leverage Pack Tactics; it would be in the wizard's favor to reverse that order. Either is within the DM's purview, and the DM should decide based on the pace of the encounter and what works best for the table and the group.
Note that the DM might decide that order dynamically each round or might decide it statically once at the start of combat. The rules can be read to support either style. However, in my experience as a DM, it's very hard to remember a static order among a bunch of identical creatures and is in general not worth the effort as long as you don't disproportionately favor the monsters over the players.
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The monsters act in an order of the DM's choosing.
This is implied in the rules for Initiative in the Basic Rules (emphasis mine):
...When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same tim.... the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures...
In the full context of that rules passage, the DM decides ties among creatures who roll the same initiative count. When rolling initiative once for a group of monsters, the entire group shares the same initiative count. Therefore, the DM can decide the order that those monsters act, since they are effectively tied.
Thus, the DM will probably decide either the most favorable order for their monsters or the most satisfying order for the agency of the players. In your example, it would be in the monsters' favor to let the kobold save out of paralysis first to possibly allow its ally to leverage Pack Tactics; it would be in the wizard's favor to reverse that order. Either is within the DM's purview, and the DM should decide based on the pace of the encounter and what works best for the table and the group.
Note that the DM might decide that order dynamically each round or might decide it statically once at the start of combat. The rules can be read to support either style. However, in my experience as a DM, it's very hard to remember a static order among a bunch of identical creatures and is in general not worth the effort as long as you don't disproportionately favor the monsters over the players.
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
$endgroup$
The monsters act in an order of the DM's choosing.
This is implied in the rules for Initiative in the Basic Rules (emphasis mine):
...When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of the group acts at the same tim.... the DM decides the order among tied DM-controlled creatures...
In the full context of that rules passage, the DM decides ties among creatures who roll the same initiative count. When rolling initiative once for a group of monsters, the entire group shares the same initiative count. Therefore, the DM can decide the order that those monsters act, since they are effectively tied.
Thus, the DM will probably decide either the most favorable order for their monsters or the most satisfying order for the agency of the players. In your example, it would be in the monsters' favor to let the kobold save out of paralysis first to possibly allow its ally to leverage Pack Tactics; it would be in the wizard's favor to reverse that order. Either is within the DM's purview, and the DM should decide based on the pace of the encounter and what works best for the table and the group.
Note that the DM might decide that order dynamically each round or might decide it statically once at the start of combat. The rules can be read to support either style. However, in my experience as a DM, it's very hard to remember a static order among a bunch of identical creatures and is in general not worth the effort as long as you don't disproportionately favor the monsters over the players.
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
edited 1 hour ago
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
answered 2 hours ago
BloodcinderBloodcinder
22.4k380139
22.4k380139
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
It might be worth noting that, according to Jeremy Crawford, the intent is: "The initiative rules assume that ties are sorted out when a tie first occurs. But a DM might allow the choice to occur each round." (The tweet was originally made in the context of controlled mounts having their own turn on the rider's initiative, either before or after the rider's turn.)
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
I've sworn off quoting Jeremy Crawford going forward. You might consider spinning that into your own answer. I will add a paragraph about whether the DM should choose a static or dynamic order, however.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143265%2fif-the-dm-rolls-initiative-once-for-a-group-of-monsters-how-do-end-of-turn-effe%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
