Calculate the number of points of an elliptic curve in medium Weierstrass form over finite fieldProving the...

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Calculate the number of points of an elliptic curve in medium Weierstrass form over finite field


Proving the condition for two elliptic curves given in Weierstrass form to be isomorphicEndomorphism Ring of an Elliptic Curve over Finite FieldComputation of the 2-torsion group of an elliptic curveHasse's Theorem for Elliptic Curves over Finite Fields + proof clarificationTopics in elliptic curves over finite fieldsElliptic curve $y^2= x^3 + x$ over the finite field $mathbb{F}_p$ with $p geq 3$.Addition of points on elliptic curves over a finite fieldAdding points on an elliptic curveDirect sum of two points on an elliptic curveWeierstrass Form of an Elliptic Curve













5












$begingroup$


Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$

















    5












    $begingroup$


    Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$















      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$


      Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Let $E$ be the elliptic curve over $mathbb{F}_3$ in medium Weierstrass form $E:y^2=x^3+x^2+x+1$. How to compute the number of points $|E(mathbb{F}_{3^k})|$? I read that there are some formulas for computing number of points for short Weierstrass form by Frobenius endomorphism. But they don't work in this case.







      number-theory elliptic-curves






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      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked 5 hours ago









      NickyNicky

      736




      736






















          2 Answers
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          active

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          4












          $begingroup$

          Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



          magma code



               F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
          C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
          t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
          P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

          for k in [2..10] do
          Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
          Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
          [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
          end for;


          To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



          Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
          $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$





















            0












            $begingroup$

            This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
            $$
            E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
            $$

            In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
            $alpha,overline{alpha}$
            (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
            $$
            alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
            $$

            The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



            The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
            $$
            |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
            $$



            For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
            implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













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              4












              $begingroup$

              Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



              magma code



                   F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
              C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
              t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
              P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

              for k in [2..10] do
              Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
              Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
              [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
              end for;


              To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



              Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
              $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                magma code



                     F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                for k in [2..10] do
                Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                end for;


                To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                  magma code



                       F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                  C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                  t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                  P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                  for k in [2..10] do
                  Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                  Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                  [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                  end for;


                  To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                  Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                  $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Let $phi^k(x,y)= (x^{3^k},y^{3^k})$ then $#E(mathbb{F}_{3^k}) =deg_s(phi^k-1)$. Is the endomorphism $phi^k-1$ separable ? Yes because inserapable endomorphisms are of the form $rho circ phi$. Then $$deg_s(phi^k-1) = deg(phi^k-1)=((phi^*)^k-1)(phi^k-1)\= (phi^*phi)^k+1-(phi^*)^k-phi^k = 3^k+1-alpha^k-(alpha^*)^k$$ where $phi^*$ is the dual isogeny such that $phi^* phi = deg(phi) = 3$ and $phi+phi^* = t = 3+1-#E(mathbb{F}_{3})$ and $alpha$ is the root of the minimal polynomial $X^2-t X + 3 = 0$ of the Frobenius



                  magma code



                       F := FiniteField(3); A<x,y> := AffineSpace(F,2);
                  C := Curve(A,y^2-x^3-x^2-x-1);
                  t :=3+1- #Points(ProjectiveClosure(C));
                  P<z> := PolynomialRing(Integers()); K<a> := NumberField(z^2-t*z+3); aa := Norm(a)/a;

                  for k in [2..10] do
                  Ck := BaseChange(C,FiniteField(3^k));
                  Ek := #Points(ProjectiveClosure(Ck));
                  [Ek,3^k+1-a^k-aa^k];
                  end for;


                  To obtain the minimal polynomial of endomorphisms :



                  Write that $E(overline{mathbb{F}_3}) $ is a subgroup of $mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}times mathbb{Q}/mathbb{Z}$ so any group homomorphism acts as a matrix
                  $A=pmatrix{a & b \c & d} in M_2(widehat{mathbb{Z}})$ (matrix of profinite integers). Then the dual homomorphism is $A^*=pmatrix{d & -b \-c & a}$ so that $A^* A = pmatrix{ad-bc& 0 \ 0 & ad-bc}$ and $A + A^* = pmatrix{a+d & 0 \0 & a+d}$, so they both act as direct multiplication by an element in $widehat{mathbb{Z}}$. If $A$ is an endomorphism (defined by polynomial equations) then so are $A^*,A + A^*,A^*A$ so the latter must act as multiplication by elements in $mathbb{Z}$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited 1 hour ago

























                  answered 4 hours ago









                  reunsreuns

                  20.7k21148




                  20.7k21148























                      0












                      $begingroup$

                      This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                      $$
                      E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                      $$

                      In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                      $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                      (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                      $$
                      alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                      $$

                      The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                      The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                      $$
                      |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                      $$



                      For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                      implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$


















                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                        $$
                        E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                        $$

                        In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                        $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                        (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                        $$
                        alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                        $$

                        The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                        The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                        $$
                        |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                        $$



                        For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                        implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$
















                          0












                          0








                          0





                          $begingroup$

                          This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                          $$
                          E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                          $$

                          In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                          $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                          (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                          $$
                          alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                          $$

                          The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                          The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                          $$
                          |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                          $$



                          For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                          implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$



                          This is, indeed, easy after you have calculated the number of points over the prime field. It is straightforward to list them
                          $$
                          E(Bbb{F}_3)={(0,1),(0,-1),(1,1),(1,-1),(-1,0),infty}.
                          $$

                          In other words $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=6.$ This piece of information gives us the complex numbers
                          $alpha,overline{alpha}$
                          (see reuns's post for their interpretation as eigenvalues of Frobenius on the Tate module) as they are known to safisfy the equations $|alpha|^2=3$ and
                          $$
                          alpha+overline{alpha}=3+1-|E(Bbb{F}_3)|=-2.
                          $$

                          The real part of $alpha$ is thus equal to $-1$, so $alpha=-1pm isqrt2$.



                          The formula for the number of rational poinst on the extension field then reads
                          $$
                          |E(Bbb{F}_{3^k})|=3^k+1-alpha^k-overline{alpha}^k=3^k+1-2operatorname{Re}(-1+isqrt2)^k.
                          $$



                          For example, when $k=2$, $alpha^2=(-1+isqrt2)^2=-1-2isqrt2$
                          implying that $|E(Bbb{F}_9)|=9+1+2=12$. This passes the litmus test of being divisible by $|E(Bbb{F}_3)|$ (Lagrange's theorem from elementary group theory), possibly adding to our confidence in the correctness of the result.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 49 mins ago









                          Jyrki LahtonenJyrki Lahtonen

                          109k13170377




                          109k13170377






























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