What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing?Are English 'butterfly', German...

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What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing?


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What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing? My concern is the tendency (popularly) to mistake initial alpha as privative when it is not (e.g. hamartia): The easiest case, I suppose, is the rough breathing, in which case, am I right to imagine a reconstructed *ha? The question is relevant also, however, with any genuinely alpha-initial root.
Thank you.










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  • Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

    – Draconis
    1 hour ago
















1















What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing? My concern is the tendency (popularly) to mistake initial alpha as privative when it is not (e.g. hamartia): The easiest case, I suppose, is the rough breathing, in which case, am I right to imagine a reconstructed *ha? The question is relevant also, however, with any genuinely alpha-initial root.
Thank you.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

    – Draconis
    1 hour ago














1












1








1








What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing? My concern is the tendency (popularly) to mistake initial alpha as privative when it is not (e.g. hamartia): The easiest case, I suppose, is the rough breathing, in which case, am I right to imagine a reconstructed *ha? The question is relevant also, however, with any genuinely alpha-initial root.
Thank you.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












What is the PIE reconstruction for word-initial alpha with rough breathing? My concern is the tendency (popularly) to mistake initial alpha as privative when it is not (e.g. hamartia): The easiest case, I suppose, is the rough breathing, in which case, am I right to imagine a reconstructed *ha? The question is relevant also, however, with any genuinely alpha-initial root.
Thank you.







historical-linguistics






share|improve this question







New contributor




Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









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Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 4 hours ago









Nathan LeflerNathan Lefler

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Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Nathan Lefler is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

    – Draconis
    1 hour ago



















  • Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

    – Draconis
    1 hour ago

















Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

– Draconis
1 hour ago





Good question! But I'd recommend breaking the second part of the question ("what about word-initial alpha with smooth breathing?") off into its own question. I can give an answer to that too, but it's a separate thing.

– Draconis
1 hour ago










1 Answer
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Hamartía "sin" is a hard example to use, because to my knowledge, hamartánō "to sin" has no known IE cognates. This means there's no way to check or confirm reconstructions, and it may not come from PIE at all. Instead, I'm going to use háls "salt".



In general, /h/ in any Indo-European language (except Hittite!) has nothing to do with PIE laryngeals like *h₁. The laryngeals disappeared very early and are only visible by the effects they had on surrounding sounds.



In Ancient Greek in particular, /h/ usually came from an earlier *s before a vowel. (Later, it disappeared when it wasn't at the start of a word; even later, it disappeared everywhere.) So the reconstructed PIE for "salt" was something like *séh₂l-s, as seen in Latin sāl and English salt.



This is also where the prefix ha- "together" came from: the PIE ancestor is reconstructed as *sṃ, as seen in Latin forms like simplex and semel. In Greek, *ṃ turned into a, and the *s turned into h, giving the ha- found in Hāidēs, haploûs, hápas, and so on.



P.S. Sometimes you won't see an /h/ where you might expect one, as in adelphós, which has that same ha- prefix. This is due to "Grassmann's Law": if you have two or more aspirated consonants in a word, all but the last one lose their aspiration. This is why you see héksō alongside ékhō: in the future tense, the khs simplifies into k, which allows the original h at the beginning to show through.






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    1 Answer
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    1 Answer
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    active

    oldest

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    active

    oldest

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    3














    Hamartía "sin" is a hard example to use, because to my knowledge, hamartánō "to sin" has no known IE cognates. This means there's no way to check or confirm reconstructions, and it may not come from PIE at all. Instead, I'm going to use háls "salt".



    In general, /h/ in any Indo-European language (except Hittite!) has nothing to do with PIE laryngeals like *h₁. The laryngeals disappeared very early and are only visible by the effects they had on surrounding sounds.



    In Ancient Greek in particular, /h/ usually came from an earlier *s before a vowel. (Later, it disappeared when it wasn't at the start of a word; even later, it disappeared everywhere.) So the reconstructed PIE for "salt" was something like *séh₂l-s, as seen in Latin sāl and English salt.



    This is also where the prefix ha- "together" came from: the PIE ancestor is reconstructed as *sṃ, as seen in Latin forms like simplex and semel. In Greek, *ṃ turned into a, and the *s turned into h, giving the ha- found in Hāidēs, haploûs, hápas, and so on.



    P.S. Sometimes you won't see an /h/ where you might expect one, as in adelphós, which has that same ha- prefix. This is due to "Grassmann's Law": if you have two or more aspirated consonants in a word, all but the last one lose their aspiration. This is why you see héksō alongside ékhō: in the future tense, the khs simplifies into k, which allows the original h at the beginning to show through.






    share|improve this answer




























      3














      Hamartía "sin" is a hard example to use, because to my knowledge, hamartánō "to sin" has no known IE cognates. This means there's no way to check or confirm reconstructions, and it may not come from PIE at all. Instead, I'm going to use háls "salt".



      In general, /h/ in any Indo-European language (except Hittite!) has nothing to do with PIE laryngeals like *h₁. The laryngeals disappeared very early and are only visible by the effects they had on surrounding sounds.



      In Ancient Greek in particular, /h/ usually came from an earlier *s before a vowel. (Later, it disappeared when it wasn't at the start of a word; even later, it disappeared everywhere.) So the reconstructed PIE for "salt" was something like *séh₂l-s, as seen in Latin sāl and English salt.



      This is also where the prefix ha- "together" came from: the PIE ancestor is reconstructed as *sṃ, as seen in Latin forms like simplex and semel. In Greek, *ṃ turned into a, and the *s turned into h, giving the ha- found in Hāidēs, haploûs, hápas, and so on.



      P.S. Sometimes you won't see an /h/ where you might expect one, as in adelphós, which has that same ha- prefix. This is due to "Grassmann's Law": if you have two or more aspirated consonants in a word, all but the last one lose their aspiration. This is why you see héksō alongside ékhō: in the future tense, the khs simplifies into k, which allows the original h at the beginning to show through.






      share|improve this answer


























        3












        3








        3







        Hamartía "sin" is a hard example to use, because to my knowledge, hamartánō "to sin" has no known IE cognates. This means there's no way to check or confirm reconstructions, and it may not come from PIE at all. Instead, I'm going to use háls "salt".



        In general, /h/ in any Indo-European language (except Hittite!) has nothing to do with PIE laryngeals like *h₁. The laryngeals disappeared very early and are only visible by the effects they had on surrounding sounds.



        In Ancient Greek in particular, /h/ usually came from an earlier *s before a vowel. (Later, it disappeared when it wasn't at the start of a word; even later, it disappeared everywhere.) So the reconstructed PIE for "salt" was something like *séh₂l-s, as seen in Latin sāl and English salt.



        This is also where the prefix ha- "together" came from: the PIE ancestor is reconstructed as *sṃ, as seen in Latin forms like simplex and semel. In Greek, *ṃ turned into a, and the *s turned into h, giving the ha- found in Hāidēs, haploûs, hápas, and so on.



        P.S. Sometimes you won't see an /h/ where you might expect one, as in adelphós, which has that same ha- prefix. This is due to "Grassmann's Law": if you have two or more aspirated consonants in a word, all but the last one lose their aspiration. This is why you see héksō alongside ékhō: in the future tense, the khs simplifies into k, which allows the original h at the beginning to show through.






        share|improve this answer













        Hamartía "sin" is a hard example to use, because to my knowledge, hamartánō "to sin" has no known IE cognates. This means there's no way to check or confirm reconstructions, and it may not come from PIE at all. Instead, I'm going to use háls "salt".



        In general, /h/ in any Indo-European language (except Hittite!) has nothing to do with PIE laryngeals like *h₁. The laryngeals disappeared very early and are only visible by the effects they had on surrounding sounds.



        In Ancient Greek in particular, /h/ usually came from an earlier *s before a vowel. (Later, it disappeared when it wasn't at the start of a word; even later, it disappeared everywhere.) So the reconstructed PIE for "salt" was something like *séh₂l-s, as seen in Latin sāl and English salt.



        This is also where the prefix ha- "together" came from: the PIE ancestor is reconstructed as *sṃ, as seen in Latin forms like simplex and semel. In Greek, *ṃ turned into a, and the *s turned into h, giving the ha- found in Hāidēs, haploûs, hápas, and so on.



        P.S. Sometimes you won't see an /h/ where you might expect one, as in adelphós, which has that same ha- prefix. This is due to "Grassmann's Law": if you have two or more aspirated consonants in a word, all but the last one lose their aspiration. This is why you see héksō alongside ékhō: in the future tense, the khs simplifies into k, which allows the original h at the beginning to show through.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



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        answered 2 hours ago









        DraconisDraconis

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