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How did Ancient Greek 'πυρ' become English 'fire?'


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1















fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the bilabial plosive become a bilabial fricative?



I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?










share|improve this question



























    1















    fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the bilabial plosive become a bilabial fricative?



    I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?










    share|improve this question

























      1












      1








      1








      fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the bilabial plosive become a bilabial fricative?



      I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?










      share|improve this question














      fire is derived from the Ancient Greek πυρ. My question is: how did the bilabial plosive become a bilabial fricative?



      I believe pyre is also derived from πυρ; why is it that pyre didn't also undergo this "fricativisation"?







      phonology phonetics greek fricatives plosives






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 10 hours ago









      daisydaisy

      1363




      1363






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          5














          English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.



          Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.



          Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.



          Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops

          became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.



          Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
          ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.






          share|improve this answer































            2














            As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.



            One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.



            In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.



            In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).



            The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.






            share|improve this answer
























            • It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

              – Arnaud Fournet
              4 mins ago











            Your Answer








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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes









            5














            English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.



            Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.



            Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.



            Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops

            became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.



            Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
            ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.






            share|improve this answer




























              5














              English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.



              Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.



              Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.



              Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops

              became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.



              Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
              ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.






              share|improve this answer


























                5












                5








                5







                English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.



                Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.



                Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.



                Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops

                became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.



                Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
                ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.






                share|improve this answer













                English fire is not derived from Greek πυρ.



                Both fire and πυρ come originally from the Proto-Indo-European root *paəwr̥.



                Greek simplified the vowel sequence /aəw/ to /ū/, but kept the consonants.



                Proto-Germanic was *fūr, similar to Greek, but all Germanic voiceless stops

                became homorganic fricatives as part of Grimm's Law.



                Modern English fire comes from Old English fȳr, which was produced by fronting the Proto-Germanic
                ū to ȳ, a natural process called "Umlaut", which is very common in Germanic languages.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 9 hours ago









                jlawlerjlawler

                7,78612139




                7,78612139























                    2














                    As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.



                    One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.



                    In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.



                    In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).



                    The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                      – Arnaud Fournet
                      4 mins ago
















                    2














                    As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.



                    One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.



                    In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.



                    In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).



                    The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.






                    share|improve this answer
























                    • It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                      – Arnaud Fournet
                      4 mins ago














                    2












                    2








                    2







                    As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.



                    One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.



                    In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.



                    In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).



                    The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.






                    share|improve this answer













                    As jlawer says, English "fire" doesn't actually come from Greek pŷr. "Pyre" does, but that's a borrowing (via Latin), and it's pretty clear how it happened.



                    One of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European (last common ancestor of English and Greek) words for "fire" looked something like *peh₂-wr̥. The *h₂ was probably a velar fricative, like in "loch", but there's not a strong consensus on that part.



                    In Ancient Greek, the *eh₂w in the middle simplified to give something like *pūr; then the /u/ fronted to /y/, and a bit of tone funkiness happened, giving pŷr.



                    In Germanic (the branch of Indo-European containing English), a process called "Grimm's Law" happened, which changed voiceless stops (p, t, k) at the beginning of words into fricatives (f, th, h).



                    The vowel in the middle went through some strangeness involving a collective form, but the branch that would become English eventually simplified it into something like *fuir; the ui merged into ȳ, which English then turned into ī. Spelling conventions then turned fīr into fire, and the Great Vowel Shift gave it its modern pronunciation.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered 7 hours ago









                    DraconisDraconis

                    11.2k11948




                    11.2k11948













                    • It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                      – Arnaud Fournet
                      4 mins ago



















                    • It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                      – Arnaud Fournet
                      4 mins ago

















                    It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                    – Arnaud Fournet
                    4 mins ago





                    It can be added that Hittite has the word pahhur "fire", that bolsters the reconstruction *peh2-wr for the original proto-language.

                    – Arnaud Fournet
                    4 mins ago


















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