Do other languages have an “irreversible aspect”?What is permansive aspect?How do languages with...
Which country benefited the most from UN Security Council vetoes?
I'm flying to France today and my passport expires in less than 2 months
Rock identification in KY
Was any UN Security Council vote triple-vetoed?
Paid for article while in US on F-1 visa?
Languages that we cannot (dis)prove to be Context-Free
Has there ever been an airliner design involving reducing generator load by installing solar panels?
RSA: Danger of using p to create q
Why doesn't H₄O²⁺ exist?
Why can't I see bouncing of switch on oscilloscope screen?
Is it possible for a square root function,f(x), to map to a finite number of integers for all x in domain of f?
Does an object always see its latest internal state irrespective of thread?
Unable to deploy metadata from Partner Developer scratch org because of extra fields
What's the point of deactivating Num Lock on login screens?
How is the claim "I am in New York only if I am in America" the same as "If I am in New York, then I am in America?
Why are electrically insulating heatsinks so rare? Is it just cost?
Can a monk's single staff be considered dual wielded, as per the Dual Wielder feat?
Are astronomers waiting to see something in an image from a gravitational lens that they've already seen in an adjacent image?
How to source a part of a file
DC-DC converter from low voltage at high current, to high voltage at low current
What does it mean to describe someone as a butt steak?
What defenses are there against being summoned by the Gate spell?
How is it possible to have an ability score that is less than 3?
High voltage LED indicator 40-1000 VDC without additional power supply
Do other languages have an “irreversible aspect”?
What is permansive aspect?How do languages with imperfect aspect typically convey distinctions between habitual, iterative, and progressive aspects?Why does English have progressive aspect but German does not?Can every language express any lexical aspect?Grammatical Aspect and Lexical AspectDoes English have [ inchoative aspect ]?Syntactic vs Morphological features for generation of English VGsIs the obligatory omission of tense/aspect/mood marking in polar interrogatives common?habitual aspect in englishAre there any languages which inflect the noun for morphosyntactic categories normally reserved for verbs (e.g. tense, aspect, etc.)?
Like many languages, Lingála combines tense, aspect, and mood into a single TAM marking. Three of these TAMs pertain to the past:
a-kɛnd-ákí "he left earlier today" (hodiernal/recent past)
a-kɛnd-áká "he left a long time ago" (distant past)
a-kɛnd-á "he left, and he's never coming back" ("irreversible aspect")
This third tense, sometimes called the "irreversible", "ultimate", or "dead" TAM, describes an action that's happened and now can never be reversed. According to one native speaker, responding to a-kɛnd-á with "so when will he be coming back?" is a breach of conversational maxims and will get you a lot of blank stares.
I've never come across this aspect in other languages, and so I'm curious: are there other languages that have a specific grammatical marking for this meaning? And if so, is there a standard or commonly accepted name for it?
P.S. I'm ignoring vowel harmony in the examples for simplicity. What I'm actually interested in is the meaning.
morphology list-of-languages aspect tense-aspect-mood bantu
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
add a comment |
Like many languages, Lingála combines tense, aspect, and mood into a single TAM marking. Three of these TAMs pertain to the past:
a-kɛnd-ákí "he left earlier today" (hodiernal/recent past)
a-kɛnd-áká "he left a long time ago" (distant past)
a-kɛnd-á "he left, and he's never coming back" ("irreversible aspect")
This third tense, sometimes called the "irreversible", "ultimate", or "dead" TAM, describes an action that's happened and now can never be reversed. According to one native speaker, responding to a-kɛnd-á with "so when will he be coming back?" is a breach of conversational maxims and will get you a lot of blank stares.
I've never come across this aspect in other languages, and so I'm curious: are there other languages that have a specific grammatical marking for this meaning? And if so, is there a standard or commonly accepted name for it?
P.S. I'm ignoring vowel harmony in the examples for simplicity. What I'm actually interested in is the meaning.
morphology list-of-languages aspect tense-aspect-mood bantu
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Like many languages, Lingála combines tense, aspect, and mood into a single TAM marking. Three of these TAMs pertain to the past:
a-kɛnd-ákí "he left earlier today" (hodiernal/recent past)
a-kɛnd-áká "he left a long time ago" (distant past)
a-kɛnd-á "he left, and he's never coming back" ("irreversible aspect")
This third tense, sometimes called the "irreversible", "ultimate", or "dead" TAM, describes an action that's happened and now can never be reversed. According to one native speaker, responding to a-kɛnd-á with "so when will he be coming back?" is a breach of conversational maxims and will get you a lot of blank stares.
I've never come across this aspect in other languages, and so I'm curious: are there other languages that have a specific grammatical marking for this meaning? And if so, is there a standard or commonly accepted name for it?
P.S. I'm ignoring vowel harmony in the examples for simplicity. What I'm actually interested in is the meaning.
morphology list-of-languages aspect tense-aspect-mood bantu
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
Like many languages, Lingála combines tense, aspect, and mood into a single TAM marking. Three of these TAMs pertain to the past:
a-kɛnd-ákí "he left earlier today" (hodiernal/recent past)
a-kɛnd-áká "he left a long time ago" (distant past)
a-kɛnd-á "he left, and he's never coming back" ("irreversible aspect")
This third tense, sometimes called the "irreversible", "ultimate", or "dead" TAM, describes an action that's happened and now can never be reversed. According to one native speaker, responding to a-kɛnd-á with "so when will he be coming back?" is a breach of conversational maxims and will get you a lot of blank stares.
I've never come across this aspect in other languages, and so I'm curious: are there other languages that have a specific grammatical marking for this meaning? And if so, is there a standard or commonly accepted name for it?
P.S. I'm ignoring vowel harmony in the examples for simplicity. What I'm actually interested in is the meaning.
morphology list-of-languages aspect tense-aspect-mood bantu
morphology list-of-languages aspect tense-aspect-mood bantu
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
asked 4 hours ago
DraconisDraconis
12.8k12054
12.8k12054
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
I have not heard of such a thing, but I have heard of similar things in other Bantu languages. Generally, when you investigate the pragmatics and semantics of a Bantu language's tense system, you will find many subtle conditions of usage, for example "when you say it this way, you are disputing someone else's claim", or "you say it this way if you want to know where the thing went to". The things that inflectional categories encode are not at all limited to classical utterance-time etc. Neo-Reichenbachian distinctions. Sometimes the distinctions are common enough that we invent special terms (e.g. "perstitive" or "persistive", which has only recently spread outside Bantu). I have heard of this being described as "present grounded in distant past" for Lingala, and perhaps Michael Meeuwis (who works on Lingala tense) has an analysis and terminology to go with it. I just located an instance in Nurse's book Tense and Aspect in Bantu p. 113 where he calls this the "anterior" aspect, P2 tense.
A strategy that I don't entirely disagree with is to assume that the Neo-Reichenbachian approach is somewhat reasonable, and try to figure out what kind of aspect this could be, for example "perfective", and see if that predicts anything else. I would especially focus on the question of defeasibility in deciding whether a certain property is part of the literal meaning of the form.
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "312"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f31083%2fdo-other-languages-have-an-irreversible-aspect%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I have not heard of such a thing, but I have heard of similar things in other Bantu languages. Generally, when you investigate the pragmatics and semantics of a Bantu language's tense system, you will find many subtle conditions of usage, for example "when you say it this way, you are disputing someone else's claim", or "you say it this way if you want to know where the thing went to". The things that inflectional categories encode are not at all limited to classical utterance-time etc. Neo-Reichenbachian distinctions. Sometimes the distinctions are common enough that we invent special terms (e.g. "perstitive" or "persistive", which has only recently spread outside Bantu). I have heard of this being described as "present grounded in distant past" for Lingala, and perhaps Michael Meeuwis (who works on Lingala tense) has an analysis and terminology to go with it. I just located an instance in Nurse's book Tense and Aspect in Bantu p. 113 where he calls this the "anterior" aspect, P2 tense.
A strategy that I don't entirely disagree with is to assume that the Neo-Reichenbachian approach is somewhat reasonable, and try to figure out what kind of aspect this could be, for example "perfective", and see if that predicts anything else. I would especially focus on the question of defeasibility in deciding whether a certain property is part of the literal meaning of the form.
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I have not heard of such a thing, but I have heard of similar things in other Bantu languages. Generally, when you investigate the pragmatics and semantics of a Bantu language's tense system, you will find many subtle conditions of usage, for example "when you say it this way, you are disputing someone else's claim", or "you say it this way if you want to know where the thing went to". The things that inflectional categories encode are not at all limited to classical utterance-time etc. Neo-Reichenbachian distinctions. Sometimes the distinctions are common enough that we invent special terms (e.g. "perstitive" or "persistive", which has only recently spread outside Bantu). I have heard of this being described as "present grounded in distant past" for Lingala, and perhaps Michael Meeuwis (who works on Lingala tense) has an analysis and terminology to go with it. I just located an instance in Nurse's book Tense and Aspect in Bantu p. 113 where he calls this the "anterior" aspect, P2 tense.
A strategy that I don't entirely disagree with is to assume that the Neo-Reichenbachian approach is somewhat reasonable, and try to figure out what kind of aspect this could be, for example "perfective", and see if that predicts anything else. I would especially focus on the question of defeasibility in deciding whether a certain property is part of the literal meaning of the form.
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I have not heard of such a thing, but I have heard of similar things in other Bantu languages. Generally, when you investigate the pragmatics and semantics of a Bantu language's tense system, you will find many subtle conditions of usage, for example "when you say it this way, you are disputing someone else's claim", or "you say it this way if you want to know where the thing went to". The things that inflectional categories encode are not at all limited to classical utterance-time etc. Neo-Reichenbachian distinctions. Sometimes the distinctions are common enough that we invent special terms (e.g. "perstitive" or "persistive", which has only recently spread outside Bantu). I have heard of this being described as "present grounded in distant past" for Lingala, and perhaps Michael Meeuwis (who works on Lingala tense) has an analysis and terminology to go with it. I just located an instance in Nurse's book Tense and Aspect in Bantu p. 113 where he calls this the "anterior" aspect, P2 tense.
A strategy that I don't entirely disagree with is to assume that the Neo-Reichenbachian approach is somewhat reasonable, and try to figure out what kind of aspect this could be, for example "perfective", and see if that predicts anything else. I would especially focus on the question of defeasibility in deciding whether a certain property is part of the literal meaning of the form.
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
I have not heard of such a thing, but I have heard of similar things in other Bantu languages. Generally, when you investigate the pragmatics and semantics of a Bantu language's tense system, you will find many subtle conditions of usage, for example "when you say it this way, you are disputing someone else's claim", or "you say it this way if you want to know where the thing went to". The things that inflectional categories encode are not at all limited to classical utterance-time etc. Neo-Reichenbachian distinctions. Sometimes the distinctions are common enough that we invent special terms (e.g. "perstitive" or "persistive", which has only recently spread outside Bantu). I have heard of this being described as "present grounded in distant past" for Lingala, and perhaps Michael Meeuwis (who works on Lingala tense) has an analysis and terminology to go with it. I just located an instance in Nurse's book Tense and Aspect in Bantu p. 113 where he calls this the "anterior" aspect, P2 tense.
A strategy that I don't entirely disagree with is to assume that the Neo-Reichenbachian approach is somewhat reasonable, and try to figure out what kind of aspect this could be, for example "perfective", and see if that predicts anything else. I would especially focus on the question of defeasibility in deciding whether a certain property is part of the literal meaning of the form.
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
edited 2 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
answered 4 hours ago
user6726user6726
35.9k12471
35.9k12471
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm looking for a copy of Nurse's book now, but: what does "P2" mean here? "Past tense #2"?
– Draconis
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
P2 is "degree 2 past" with P1 being most recent. Lingala has only two degrees, AFAIK.
– user6726
2 hours ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
Interesting, thanks!
– Draconis
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Linguistics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2flinguistics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f31083%2fdo-other-languages-have-an-irreversible-aspect%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Is not it related to telicity ?
– amegnunsen
2 hours ago
@amegnunsen It could be, potentially! I'd say it's telic in that the action is done: but there's an additional "…and it's done for good" aspect to it. If you'd call that some form of telicity, that would make a good answer!
– Draconis
2 hours ago
There is something like that in Tuareg, it is called by some linguists "accompli résultatif" (resultive perfective) or "préterit intensif" (intensive preterit).
– amegnunsen
1 hour ago