Can you stand up from being prone using Skirmisher outside of your turn? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1:...
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Can you stand up from being prone using Skirmisher outside of your turn?
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraDoes standing up from prone trigger the damage from Booming Blade?Can a flying character have the Prone status? Do they have to “stand up” if they have a flight ability?How Do Grapplers Stand If Prone?Is the “half your speed” used in standing from prone your normal speed, or current speed?What would change if opportunity attacks had more triggers?Can you use Freedom of Movement with the Rogue Skirmisher Reaction?Can the Female Steeders Leap twice if it dashes?How is movement calculated when running up walls as a monk?When you run out of climbing speed, can you still climb with your normal speed at a penalty?Can mounted creatures be attacked instead of their mount, and which character(s) in mounted combat receive attacks of opportunity?What is the longest distance a 13th-level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?
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$begingroup$
Using the Rogue Scout's Skirmisher feature, which states:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you.
Additionally:
Being Prone, PHB pg 190/191
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement
equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you
must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up.
And on a relevant topic, Does standing up from prone trigger the damage from Booming Blade?. General Consensus: No.
Can I spend this movement to stand up from being prone?
The concern here is that, while standing up from being Prone costs movement, is the movement still valid, considering that standing up from Prone is not considered "movement" for the sake of other effects that rely on actual movement/distance (like Booming Blade)?
dnd-5e movement rogue prone
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Using the Rogue Scout's Skirmisher feature, which states:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you.
Additionally:
Being Prone, PHB pg 190/191
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement
equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you
must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up.
And on a relevant topic, Does standing up from prone trigger the damage from Booming Blade?. General Consensus: No.
Can I spend this movement to stand up from being prone?
The concern here is that, while standing up from being Prone costs movement, is the movement still valid, considering that standing up from Prone is not considered "movement" for the sake of other effects that rely on actual movement/distance (like Booming Blade)?
dnd-5e movement rogue prone
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Using the Rogue Scout's Skirmisher feature, which states:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you.
Additionally:
Being Prone, PHB pg 190/191
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement
equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you
must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up.
And on a relevant topic, Does standing up from prone trigger the damage from Booming Blade?. General Consensus: No.
Can I spend this movement to stand up from being prone?
The concern here is that, while standing up from being Prone costs movement, is the movement still valid, considering that standing up from Prone is not considered "movement" for the sake of other effects that rely on actual movement/distance (like Booming Blade)?
dnd-5e movement rogue prone
$endgroup$
Using the Rogue Scout's Skirmisher feature, which states:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction when an enemy ends its turn within 5 feet of you.
Additionally:
Being Prone, PHB pg 190/191
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement
equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you
must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up.
And on a relevant topic, Does standing up from prone trigger the damage from Booming Blade?. General Consensus: No.
Can I spend this movement to stand up from being prone?
The concern here is that, while standing up from being Prone costs movement, is the movement still valid, considering that standing up from Prone is not considered "movement" for the sake of other effects that rely on actual movement/distance (like Booming Blade)?
dnd-5e movement rogue prone
dnd-5e movement rogue prone
edited 3 hours ago
Rubiksmoose
62.8k10305462
62.8k10305462
asked 4 hours ago
Daniel ZastoupilDaniel Zastoupil
9,00712598
9,00712598
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Arguably, the rogue may stand up
The character is not literally "granted" a resource that is called movement but that is in fact the way the rules of movement talk about how it is used:
However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
In practice, movement is a resource that may be "deducted from" or "spent" (see Being Prone) and which can have "cost" penalties (per Difficult Terrain and crawling in Being Prone). Additionally, the Normal and Skirmisher movements are granted/refreshed using the same terminology:
Normal movement rule: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed.
Skirmisher movement rule: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction
So if the two types of movement are obtained/granted using the same "you can move" phrasing and movement is talked about as a resource that can be spent independently of whatever physical space may be traversed (e.g. over difficult terrain), it stands to reason that the movement associated with the Skirmisher feat may be spent to stand up from being prone the same way a character can with normal movement.
In the related question about Booming Blade, the selected answer makes this same point. It is possible to use the movement resource for something other than directly moving. To wit: one "spends" 10 movement to move 5 physical feet through difficult terrain. It is because of this ability to use movement (the implied resource) without moving that Booming Blade does not trigger in response to standing up.
In short, if you subscribe to this interpretation, where the phrase "you can move" is functionally identical to "you are granted movement," and that there is a movement resource that is independent of a physical translation across the battlefield, then standing up is permitted in this situation.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes
As you mentioned, to stand up:
[you spend] an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
The rules for prone movement (including standing up) are listed under Movement and Position in the Player's Handbook, right between moving through Difficult Terrain and Moving Around Other Creatures. In my interpretation, I see no reason to disqualify standing up from being a type of movement.
For the Rogue's Skirmisher feature, since you can move up to half your speed, you can simply spend the whole of that movement allocation to stand up.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
The Skirmisher feature says:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction ...
Standing up is not moving per the rules' definition, you just have to spend movement to do it.
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
Since standing up is not moving, then you cannot use the Skirmisher ability to do so.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
$endgroup$
– findusl
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
$endgroup$
– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Your Answer
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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$begingroup$
Arguably, the rogue may stand up
The character is not literally "granted" a resource that is called movement but that is in fact the way the rules of movement talk about how it is used:
However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
In practice, movement is a resource that may be "deducted from" or "spent" (see Being Prone) and which can have "cost" penalties (per Difficult Terrain and crawling in Being Prone). Additionally, the Normal and Skirmisher movements are granted/refreshed using the same terminology:
Normal movement rule: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed.
Skirmisher movement rule: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction
So if the two types of movement are obtained/granted using the same "you can move" phrasing and movement is talked about as a resource that can be spent independently of whatever physical space may be traversed (e.g. over difficult terrain), it stands to reason that the movement associated with the Skirmisher feat may be spent to stand up from being prone the same way a character can with normal movement.
In the related question about Booming Blade, the selected answer makes this same point. It is possible to use the movement resource for something other than directly moving. To wit: one "spends" 10 movement to move 5 physical feet through difficult terrain. It is because of this ability to use movement (the implied resource) without moving that Booming Blade does not trigger in response to standing up.
In short, if you subscribe to this interpretation, where the phrase "you can move" is functionally identical to "you are granted movement," and that there is a movement resource that is independent of a physical translation across the battlefield, then standing up is permitted in this situation.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Arguably, the rogue may stand up
The character is not literally "granted" a resource that is called movement but that is in fact the way the rules of movement talk about how it is used:
However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
In practice, movement is a resource that may be "deducted from" or "spent" (see Being Prone) and which can have "cost" penalties (per Difficult Terrain and crawling in Being Prone). Additionally, the Normal and Skirmisher movements are granted/refreshed using the same terminology:
Normal movement rule: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed.
Skirmisher movement rule: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction
So if the two types of movement are obtained/granted using the same "you can move" phrasing and movement is talked about as a resource that can be spent independently of whatever physical space may be traversed (e.g. over difficult terrain), it stands to reason that the movement associated with the Skirmisher feat may be spent to stand up from being prone the same way a character can with normal movement.
In the related question about Booming Blade, the selected answer makes this same point. It is possible to use the movement resource for something other than directly moving. To wit: one "spends" 10 movement to move 5 physical feet through difficult terrain. It is because of this ability to use movement (the implied resource) without moving that Booming Blade does not trigger in response to standing up.
In short, if you subscribe to this interpretation, where the phrase "you can move" is functionally identical to "you are granted movement," and that there is a movement resource that is independent of a physical translation across the battlefield, then standing up is permitted in this situation.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Arguably, the rogue may stand up
The character is not literally "granted" a resource that is called movement but that is in fact the way the rules of movement talk about how it is used:
However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
In practice, movement is a resource that may be "deducted from" or "spent" (see Being Prone) and which can have "cost" penalties (per Difficult Terrain and crawling in Being Prone). Additionally, the Normal and Skirmisher movements are granted/refreshed using the same terminology:
Normal movement rule: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed.
Skirmisher movement rule: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction
So if the two types of movement are obtained/granted using the same "you can move" phrasing and movement is talked about as a resource that can be spent independently of whatever physical space may be traversed (e.g. over difficult terrain), it stands to reason that the movement associated with the Skirmisher feat may be spent to stand up from being prone the same way a character can with normal movement.
In the related question about Booming Blade, the selected answer makes this same point. It is possible to use the movement resource for something other than directly moving. To wit: one "spends" 10 movement to move 5 physical feet through difficult terrain. It is because of this ability to use movement (the implied resource) without moving that Booming Blade does not trigger in response to standing up.
In short, if you subscribe to this interpretation, where the phrase "you can move" is functionally identical to "you are granted movement," and that there is a movement resource that is independent of a physical translation across the battlefield, then standing up is permitted in this situation.
$endgroup$
Arguably, the rogue may stand up
The character is not literally "granted" a resource that is called movement but that is in fact the way the rules of movement talk about how it is used:
However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
In practice, movement is a resource that may be "deducted from" or "spent" (see Being Prone) and which can have "cost" penalties (per Difficult Terrain and crawling in Being Prone). Additionally, the Normal and Skirmisher movements are granted/refreshed using the same terminology:
Normal movement rule: On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed.
Skirmisher movement rule: You can move up to half your speed as a reaction
So if the two types of movement are obtained/granted using the same "you can move" phrasing and movement is talked about as a resource that can be spent independently of whatever physical space may be traversed (e.g. over difficult terrain), it stands to reason that the movement associated with the Skirmisher feat may be spent to stand up from being prone the same way a character can with normal movement.
In the related question about Booming Blade, the selected answer makes this same point. It is possible to use the movement resource for something other than directly moving. To wit: one "spends" 10 movement to move 5 physical feet through difficult terrain. It is because of this ability to use movement (the implied resource) without moving that Booming Blade does not trigger in response to standing up.
In short, if you subscribe to this interpretation, where the phrase "you can move" is functionally identical to "you are granted movement," and that there is a movement resource that is independent of a physical translation across the battlefield, then standing up is permitted in this situation.
edited 9 mins ago
answered 4 hours ago
RykaraRykara
5,8341648
5,8341648
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes
As you mentioned, to stand up:
[you spend] an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
The rules for prone movement (including standing up) are listed under Movement and Position in the Player's Handbook, right between moving through Difficult Terrain and Moving Around Other Creatures. In my interpretation, I see no reason to disqualify standing up from being a type of movement.
For the Rogue's Skirmisher feature, since you can move up to half your speed, you can simply spend the whole of that movement allocation to stand up.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes
As you mentioned, to stand up:
[you spend] an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
The rules for prone movement (including standing up) are listed under Movement and Position in the Player's Handbook, right between moving through Difficult Terrain and Moving Around Other Creatures. In my interpretation, I see no reason to disqualify standing up from being a type of movement.
For the Rogue's Skirmisher feature, since you can move up to half your speed, you can simply spend the whole of that movement allocation to stand up.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes
As you mentioned, to stand up:
[you spend] an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
The rules for prone movement (including standing up) are listed under Movement and Position in the Player's Handbook, right between moving through Difficult Terrain and Moving Around Other Creatures. In my interpretation, I see no reason to disqualify standing up from being a type of movement.
For the Rogue's Skirmisher feature, since you can move up to half your speed, you can simply spend the whole of that movement allocation to stand up.
$endgroup$
Yes
As you mentioned, to stand up:
[you spend] an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
The rules for prone movement (including standing up) are listed under Movement and Position in the Player's Handbook, right between moving through Difficult Terrain and Moving Around Other Creatures. In my interpretation, I see no reason to disqualify standing up from being a type of movement.
For the Rogue's Skirmisher feature, since you can move up to half your speed, you can simply spend the whole of that movement allocation to stand up.
edited 3 hours ago
Neil Slater
12.2k33972
12.2k33972
answered 4 hours ago
ChrygoreChrygore
591210
591210
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
The Skirmisher feature says:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction ...
Standing up is not moving per the rules' definition, you just have to spend movement to do it.
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
Since standing up is not moving, then you cannot use the Skirmisher ability to do so.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
$endgroup$
– findusl
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
$endgroup$
– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
No
The Skirmisher feature says:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction ...
Standing up is not moving per the rules' definition, you just have to spend movement to do it.
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
Since standing up is not moving, then you cannot use the Skirmisher ability to do so.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
$endgroup$
– findusl
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
$endgroup$
– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
No
The Skirmisher feature says:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction ...
Standing up is not moving per the rules' definition, you just have to spend movement to do it.
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
Since standing up is not moving, then you cannot use the Skirmisher ability to do so.
$endgroup$
No
The Skirmisher feature says:
You can move up to half your speed as a reaction ...
Standing up is not moving per the rules' definition, you just have to spend movement to do it.
Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
Since standing up is not moving, then you cannot use the Skirmisher ability to do so.
answered 4 hours ago
RubiksmooseRubiksmoose
62.8k10305462
62.8k10305462
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
$endgroup$
– findusl
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
$endgroup$
– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
$endgroup$
– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
$endgroup$
– findusl
4 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
$endgroup$
– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
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– David Coffron
4 hours ago
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You may want to add that crawling is a movement option available to prone characters
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– David Coffron
4 hours ago
2
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@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
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– findusl
4 hours ago
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@Rubiksmoose if I understand your interpretation of the rules correctly, standing up is not moving. So when you do it regularly on your turn, what is it then? The phb 189 states as part of your turn you can do an action and move. Bonus actions are under bonus actions. And then there are other activities that "require neither your action nor your move". Also there are reactions. Your interpretation of standing up is none of these.
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– findusl
4 hours ago
2
2
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Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
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– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
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Is there an ability that uses an action, but is not an action? Or an ability that uses a bonus action, but is not a bonus action? How about for interactions or reactions? If yes, this would help support your argument that standing up uses movement but is not a movement. At the moment, I can't think of any examples, so your take feels a bit anomalous.
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– Pink Sweetener
3 hours ago
2
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The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
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– V2Blast
3 hours ago
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The argument, in short (to my understanding): "movement" is a thing you can do on your turn, based on your speed. Other features may use your reaction (or not) to let you move a certain distance, which may be fixed or dependent on your speed somehow, outside your turn, but you don't have a "pool" of movement to spend outside your turn.
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– V2Blast
3 hours ago
2
2
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@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
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– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
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@Zourin I appreciate your view on the matter but please save comments only for recommending changes and not just arguing. If you want to make your own point, your are welcome to write your own answer.
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– Rubiksmoose
2 hours ago
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