Would tunnel walls be stronger if built using cut granite block walls reinforced with carbon based cords?With...

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Would tunnel walls be stronger if built using cut granite block walls reinforced with carbon based cords?


With minimal terraforming, what features/structures would need to be built to protect a 25mi radius city from wind?If an Artificial Intelligence system with the same number of neurons and synapses as the human brain was built, would it be smarter than a human?Would carbon-based lifeforms be able to eat silicon-based lifeforms?













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$begingroup$


I have been drafting the concept of a future world based on current research. I have been contemplating the long lasting transportation tunnels of the future. I am asking about the likelihood of the following building method:



Notes:
Granite is abundant and has extremely high strength and durability.
New carbon based materials are breaking tensile strength records.
There have been breakthroughs in self-healing waterproofing.





Proposed Building Method:



Tunnels cut. Cracks filled and surface covered with self healing waterproofing material. Then coated with abrasion resistant material.



Granite blocks precisely cut for perfect fit in tunnel assembly. 4 hole drilled through the block.(Two through one face, and two through a perpendicular face) Blocks then coated in self-healing waterproofing and abrasion resistant coating.



Blocks moved roughly into position. Carbon based cords weaved through the holes. Cords then pulled tight pulling the blocks into position and cords tied off on themselves.





Would this type of building method be stronger than our current concrete and rebar?










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Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • $begingroup$
    Why the granite?
    $endgroup$
    – Arkenstein XII
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
    $endgroup$
    – user6760
    54 mins ago
















1












$begingroup$


I have been drafting the concept of a future world based on current research. I have been contemplating the long lasting transportation tunnels of the future. I am asking about the likelihood of the following building method:



Notes:
Granite is abundant and has extremely high strength and durability.
New carbon based materials are breaking tensile strength records.
There have been breakthroughs in self-healing waterproofing.





Proposed Building Method:



Tunnels cut. Cracks filled and surface covered with self healing waterproofing material. Then coated with abrasion resistant material.



Granite blocks precisely cut for perfect fit in tunnel assembly. 4 hole drilled through the block.(Two through one face, and two through a perpendicular face) Blocks then coated in self-healing waterproofing and abrasion resistant coating.



Blocks moved roughly into position. Carbon based cords weaved through the holes. Cords then pulled tight pulling the blocks into position and cords tied off on themselves.





Would this type of building method be stronger than our current concrete and rebar?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Why the granite?
    $endgroup$
    – Arkenstein XII
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
    $endgroup$
    – user6760
    54 mins ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


I have been drafting the concept of a future world based on current research. I have been contemplating the long lasting transportation tunnels of the future. I am asking about the likelihood of the following building method:



Notes:
Granite is abundant and has extremely high strength and durability.
New carbon based materials are breaking tensile strength records.
There have been breakthroughs in self-healing waterproofing.





Proposed Building Method:



Tunnels cut. Cracks filled and surface covered with self healing waterproofing material. Then coated with abrasion resistant material.



Granite blocks precisely cut for perfect fit in tunnel assembly. 4 hole drilled through the block.(Two through one face, and two through a perpendicular face) Blocks then coated in self-healing waterproofing and abrasion resistant coating.



Blocks moved roughly into position. Carbon based cords weaved through the holes. Cords then pulled tight pulling the blocks into position and cords tied off on themselves.





Would this type of building method be stronger than our current concrete and rebar?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I have been drafting the concept of a future world based on current research. I have been contemplating the long lasting transportation tunnels of the future. I am asking about the likelihood of the following building method:



Notes:
Granite is abundant and has extremely high strength and durability.
New carbon based materials are breaking tensile strength records.
There have been breakthroughs in self-healing waterproofing.





Proposed Building Method:



Tunnels cut. Cracks filled and surface covered with self healing waterproofing material. Then coated with abrasion resistant material.



Granite blocks precisely cut for perfect fit in tunnel assembly. 4 hole drilled through the block.(Two through one face, and two through a perpendicular face) Blocks then coated in self-healing waterproofing and abrasion resistant coating.



Blocks moved roughly into position. Carbon based cords weaved through the holes. Cords then pulled tight pulling the blocks into position and cords tied off on themselves.





Would this type of building method be stronger than our current concrete and rebar?







science-based engineering construction infrastructure






share|improve this question









New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







Dev Slocum













New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 5 hours ago









Dev SlocumDev Slocum

63




63




New contributor




Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Dev Slocum is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • $begingroup$
    Why the granite?
    $endgroup$
    – Arkenstein XII
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
    $endgroup$
    – user6760
    54 mins ago


















  • $begingroup$
    Why the granite?
    $endgroup$
    – Arkenstein XII
    5 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
    $endgroup$
    – L.Dutch
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
    $endgroup$
    – user6760
    54 mins ago
















$begingroup$
Why the granite?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why the granite?
$endgroup$
– Arkenstein XII
5 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
5 hours ago




$begingroup$
Welcome to worldbuilding. Please take the tour and visit the help center to understand what our community is about. Then please improve your question: first of all, science based cannot be the only tag. Then, what are you asking? It sounds like a construction technique question, better suited for Engineering.SE.
$endgroup$
– L.Dutch
5 hours ago












$begingroup$
granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
$endgroup$
– Dev Slocum
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths.
$endgroup$
– Dev Slocum
2 hours ago












$begingroup$
groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
$endgroup$
– user6760
54 mins ago




$begingroup$
groundwater mixed with mineral become acidic and that's bad for granite and it is also hard to cut into shapes, I don't know but maybe expert at engineering.SE can help you with this as L.Dutch commented.
$endgroup$
– user6760
54 mins ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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4












$begingroup$

Sure it would be. Granite has a compressive strength of roughly 200 MPa and concrete is usually 70 MPa (using a very quick google search), so that alone is enough to answer your question.



But why would you use Granite? You don't need to have the strongest, best, expensive material to create a tunnel wall. You need a material that will complete the job within safety regulations and you want it to be cheap, fast and easy to use.



So yeah, you could spend a hundred times more money and making a super strong tunnel, covering it with layers of materials to protect it from everything, causing your price to sky rocket and your project to be delayed and eventually abandoned due to the cost and difficultly in manipulating the material. Or you can build it to the safety regulations that have been set using a durable and easy to use material which will fulfill safety standards and not break the bank.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    3 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    2 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
    $endgroup$
    – Blade Wraith
    51 mins ago





















2












$begingroup$

No, it won't work.



The thermal expansion coefficient of granite is $7.9 - 8.4 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$, while for carbon fiber the value ranges around $1.6 - 2.1 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



For comparison, steel has $11 - 12.5 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$ and concrete $13 - 14 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



Therefore, while steel and concrete will nicely accommodate for temperature variation thanks to their similar expansion/contraption, granite and carbon fiber will not, inducing additional stress in the structure, resulting in loss of the functional bonding.



You will end up with drilled granite walls and loose carbon fibers which would do no work in reinforcing the granite.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    1 hour ago



















1












$begingroup$

No




  • Granite does not appear everywhere. It is not the principle substance removed from the vast majority of tunnels (only from the majority of deep tunnels). Shifting to granite as the primary stone for tunnels means quarrying and transporting one of the heaviest types of stone on the planet. That's expensive.


  • It also means cutting, (precision!) shaping, and (precision!) drilling one of the hardest types of stone on the planet. That's also expensive. And unlike continuously-poured concrete, you're stuck with layering bricks or blocks of granite. No matter how you secure it, that alone is a significant weakness (think "earthquake." The planet is always shifting).


  • Pouring a fluid to fit your mold is much, much simpler than chiseling one of the hardest rocks to fit and drilling holes that must align and accommodate curves. Concrete is easily transported, cheaply available, and flexible in its application. Granite is basically none of those things.


  • Concrete is internally reinforceable. Yes, it'll chip more easily than granite. It'll even break more easily than granite. But it's the use of iron rebar that is both the primary strength and the primary weakness — because the metal rusts and expands over time. Replacing the rebar with, oh, carbon fiber woven to match the makeup of rebar solves this problem completely.


  • And that assumes we don't figure out how to reinvent the Roman concrete used to build Sebastos Harbor 2,000 years ago. It's still there. And Roman concrete is naturally waterproof (it even grows stronger in seawater).



A fascinating article is "The Rock Solid History of Concrete" by Jonathan Schifman for Popular Mechanics. I strongly recommend reading it.



And cost is always an object



Construction methods are always impacted by more than the materials being used — and the cost of any construction method will always be a prime driver of how something is built. Yes, safety, utilization, etc. must all be met. But you don't spend more than you must to do anything. After 150 years (the time you specify in your question), there are many other things that will need replacement. The electrical, plumbing, and ventilation systems, and the transport platform (road, rail, etc.) come immediately to mind — and that assumes that the need for the tunnel exists after 150 years. The U.S. interstate highway system did not exist before 1956 (only 63 years ago) and yet roads have been resurfaced, redesigned, rerouted, and rebuilt considerably during the last 25 years. There are unused railway tunnels all over the country. There are unused, redesigned, and rebuilt subway tunnels all over the world. Perhaps the only kind of tunnel that would need to survive longer than 150 years is a buried aqueduct.



The convenience of concrete makes it nearly impossible to dislodge as the principle building material in the foreseeable future. Reinventing Roman concrete and reinforcing it with carbon fiber rather than iron rebar would be a much more economical, practical, and probable future than using granite.






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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    active

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    active

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    4












    $begingroup$

    Sure it would be. Granite has a compressive strength of roughly 200 MPa and concrete is usually 70 MPa (using a very quick google search), so that alone is enough to answer your question.



    But why would you use Granite? You don't need to have the strongest, best, expensive material to create a tunnel wall. You need a material that will complete the job within safety regulations and you want it to be cheap, fast and easy to use.



    So yeah, you could spend a hundred times more money and making a super strong tunnel, covering it with layers of materials to protect it from everything, causing your price to sky rocket and your project to be delayed and eventually abandoned due to the cost and difficultly in manipulating the material. Or you can build it to the safety regulations that have been set using a durable and easy to use material which will fulfill safety standards and not break the bank.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
      $endgroup$
      – Dev Slocum
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
      $endgroup$
      – Blade Wraith
      51 mins ago


















    4












    $begingroup$

    Sure it would be. Granite has a compressive strength of roughly 200 MPa and concrete is usually 70 MPa (using a very quick google search), so that alone is enough to answer your question.



    But why would you use Granite? You don't need to have the strongest, best, expensive material to create a tunnel wall. You need a material that will complete the job within safety regulations and you want it to be cheap, fast and easy to use.



    So yeah, you could spend a hundred times more money and making a super strong tunnel, covering it with layers of materials to protect it from everything, causing your price to sky rocket and your project to be delayed and eventually abandoned due to the cost and difficultly in manipulating the material. Or you can build it to the safety regulations that have been set using a durable and easy to use material which will fulfill safety standards and not break the bank.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
      $endgroup$
      – Dev Slocum
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
      $endgroup$
      – Blade Wraith
      51 mins ago
















    4












    4








    4





    $begingroup$

    Sure it would be. Granite has a compressive strength of roughly 200 MPa and concrete is usually 70 MPa (using a very quick google search), so that alone is enough to answer your question.



    But why would you use Granite? You don't need to have the strongest, best, expensive material to create a tunnel wall. You need a material that will complete the job within safety regulations and you want it to be cheap, fast and easy to use.



    So yeah, you could spend a hundred times more money and making a super strong tunnel, covering it with layers of materials to protect it from everything, causing your price to sky rocket and your project to be delayed and eventually abandoned due to the cost and difficultly in manipulating the material. Or you can build it to the safety regulations that have been set using a durable and easy to use material which will fulfill safety standards and not break the bank.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Sure it would be. Granite has a compressive strength of roughly 200 MPa and concrete is usually 70 MPa (using a very quick google search), so that alone is enough to answer your question.



    But why would you use Granite? You don't need to have the strongest, best, expensive material to create a tunnel wall. You need a material that will complete the job within safety regulations and you want it to be cheap, fast and easy to use.



    So yeah, you could spend a hundred times more money and making a super strong tunnel, covering it with layers of materials to protect it from everything, causing your price to sky rocket and your project to be delayed and eventually abandoned due to the cost and difficultly in manipulating the material. Or you can build it to the safety regulations that have been set using a durable and easy to use material which will fulfill safety standards and not break the bank.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 3 hours ago









    ShadowzeeShadowzee

    9,2281843




    9,2281843












    • $begingroup$
      The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
      $endgroup$
      – Dev Slocum
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
      $endgroup$
      – Blade Wraith
      51 mins ago




















    • $begingroup$
      The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      3 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
      $endgroup$
      – Dev Slocum
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
      $endgroup$
      – Shadowzee
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
      $endgroup$
      – Blade Wraith
      51 mins ago


















    $begingroup$
    The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    3 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    The machine which is used to create such a tunnel would grind all that granite into dust, so there would be no additional materials you could really scavenge. Making it on site also means that your not purchasing it and having it precut ready to assemble in bulk. You need to extract and process it on site which is going to double or triple the equipment and manpower required.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    3 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    granite is known to last extremely long, especially relative to the 50-100 year lifespan of modern concrete. It is also one of the materials extracted from many of the tunnels. Rather than crushing it as per current methods, we can cut the blocks right out of the tunnel paths. The new equipment would be expensive to develop, and the boring time slower, but they may last much longer. The compressive strength of granite and concrete do not fully answer the question. There are many factors regarding tunnels
    $endgroup$
    – Dev Slocum
    2 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    2 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum Please note that your question asks if your proposed method will be stronger than concrete, to which I said yes. I do not plan to elaborate why your water proof coated granite plated tunnel in granite is better than a concrete tunnel because it seems pointless. There is nothing stopping you from using your method, but you seem to be ignoring a lot of other considerations, in favor of your method.
    $endgroup$
    – Shadowzee
    2 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
    $endgroup$
    – Blade Wraith
    51 mins ago






    $begingroup$
    @DevSlocum its also worth noting that if you are drilling through granite, and taking the time to cut it into blocks carefully to fill the job, why not take the time to build a very high precision drill to cut a smooth face along the tunnel, why build the blocks in the first place by removing material that is already bonded to each other better than you can bond it yourself, then just line your tunnel with whatever you want for water proofing. the tech would be expensive by it would probably be about the same as building the tech to build you granite block tunnel.
    $endgroup$
    – Blade Wraith
    51 mins ago













    2












    $begingroup$

    No, it won't work.



    The thermal expansion coefficient of granite is $7.9 - 8.4 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$, while for carbon fiber the value ranges around $1.6 - 2.1 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    For comparison, steel has $11 - 12.5 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$ and concrete $13 - 14 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    Therefore, while steel and concrete will nicely accommodate for temperature variation thanks to their similar expansion/contraption, granite and carbon fiber will not, inducing additional stress in the structure, resulting in loss of the functional bonding.



    You will end up with drilled granite walls and loose carbon fibers which would do no work in reinforcing the granite.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      1 hour ago
















    2












    $begingroup$

    No, it won't work.



    The thermal expansion coefficient of granite is $7.9 - 8.4 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$, while for carbon fiber the value ranges around $1.6 - 2.1 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    For comparison, steel has $11 - 12.5 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$ and concrete $13 - 14 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    Therefore, while steel and concrete will nicely accommodate for temperature variation thanks to their similar expansion/contraption, granite and carbon fiber will not, inducing additional stress in the structure, resulting in loss of the functional bonding.



    You will end up with drilled granite walls and loose carbon fibers which would do no work in reinforcing the granite.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      1 hour ago














    2












    2








    2





    $begingroup$

    No, it won't work.



    The thermal expansion coefficient of granite is $7.9 - 8.4 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$, while for carbon fiber the value ranges around $1.6 - 2.1 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    For comparison, steel has $11 - 12.5 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$ and concrete $13 - 14 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    Therefore, while steel and concrete will nicely accommodate for temperature variation thanks to their similar expansion/contraption, granite and carbon fiber will not, inducing additional stress in the structure, resulting in loss of the functional bonding.



    You will end up with drilled granite walls and loose carbon fibers which would do no work in reinforcing the granite.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    No, it won't work.



    The thermal expansion coefficient of granite is $7.9 - 8.4 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$, while for carbon fiber the value ranges around $1.6 - 2.1 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    For comparison, steel has $11 - 12.5 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$ and concrete $13 - 14 cdot 10^{-6} m/m K$.



    Therefore, while steel and concrete will nicely accommodate for temperature variation thanks to their similar expansion/contraption, granite and carbon fiber will not, inducing additional stress in the structure, resulting in loss of the functional bonding.



    You will end up with drilled granite walls and loose carbon fibers which would do no work in reinforcing the granite.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 2 hours ago









    L.DutchL.Dutch

    85.2k28201416




    85.2k28201416












    • $begingroup$
      This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      1 hour ago


















    • $begingroup$
      This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      1 hour ago
















    $begingroup$
    This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    1 hour ago




    $begingroup$
    This is a darn good point. Although it can be moderated by tensioning the carbon fiber (tensioned foundations are required in Texas/Austin due to the unstable ground. I used to live there), it doesn't solve the problem completely. This was good insight.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    1 hour ago











    1












    $begingroup$

    No




    • Granite does not appear everywhere. It is not the principle substance removed from the vast majority of tunnels (only from the majority of deep tunnels). Shifting to granite as the primary stone for tunnels means quarrying and transporting one of the heaviest types of stone on the planet. That's expensive.


    • It also means cutting, (precision!) shaping, and (precision!) drilling one of the hardest types of stone on the planet. That's also expensive. And unlike continuously-poured concrete, you're stuck with layering bricks or blocks of granite. No matter how you secure it, that alone is a significant weakness (think "earthquake." The planet is always shifting).


    • Pouring a fluid to fit your mold is much, much simpler than chiseling one of the hardest rocks to fit and drilling holes that must align and accommodate curves. Concrete is easily transported, cheaply available, and flexible in its application. Granite is basically none of those things.


    • Concrete is internally reinforceable. Yes, it'll chip more easily than granite. It'll even break more easily than granite. But it's the use of iron rebar that is both the primary strength and the primary weakness — because the metal rusts and expands over time. Replacing the rebar with, oh, carbon fiber woven to match the makeup of rebar solves this problem completely.


    • And that assumes we don't figure out how to reinvent the Roman concrete used to build Sebastos Harbor 2,000 years ago. It's still there. And Roman concrete is naturally waterproof (it even grows stronger in seawater).



    A fascinating article is "The Rock Solid History of Concrete" by Jonathan Schifman for Popular Mechanics. I strongly recommend reading it.



    And cost is always an object



    Construction methods are always impacted by more than the materials being used — and the cost of any construction method will always be a prime driver of how something is built. Yes, safety, utilization, etc. must all be met. But you don't spend more than you must to do anything. After 150 years (the time you specify in your question), there are many other things that will need replacement. The electrical, plumbing, and ventilation systems, and the transport platform (road, rail, etc.) come immediately to mind — and that assumes that the need for the tunnel exists after 150 years. The U.S. interstate highway system did not exist before 1956 (only 63 years ago) and yet roads have been resurfaced, redesigned, rerouted, and rebuilt considerably during the last 25 years. There are unused railway tunnels all over the country. There are unused, redesigned, and rebuilt subway tunnels all over the world. Perhaps the only kind of tunnel that would need to survive longer than 150 years is a buried aqueduct.



    The convenience of concrete makes it nearly impossible to dislodge as the principle building material in the foreseeable future. Reinventing Roman concrete and reinforcing it with carbon fiber rather than iron rebar would be a much more economical, practical, and probable future than using granite.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      No




      • Granite does not appear everywhere. It is not the principle substance removed from the vast majority of tunnels (only from the majority of deep tunnels). Shifting to granite as the primary stone for tunnels means quarrying and transporting one of the heaviest types of stone on the planet. That's expensive.


      • It also means cutting, (precision!) shaping, and (precision!) drilling one of the hardest types of stone on the planet. That's also expensive. And unlike continuously-poured concrete, you're stuck with layering bricks or blocks of granite. No matter how you secure it, that alone is a significant weakness (think "earthquake." The planet is always shifting).


      • Pouring a fluid to fit your mold is much, much simpler than chiseling one of the hardest rocks to fit and drilling holes that must align and accommodate curves. Concrete is easily transported, cheaply available, and flexible in its application. Granite is basically none of those things.


      • Concrete is internally reinforceable. Yes, it'll chip more easily than granite. It'll even break more easily than granite. But it's the use of iron rebar that is both the primary strength and the primary weakness — because the metal rusts and expands over time. Replacing the rebar with, oh, carbon fiber woven to match the makeup of rebar solves this problem completely.


      • And that assumes we don't figure out how to reinvent the Roman concrete used to build Sebastos Harbor 2,000 years ago. It's still there. And Roman concrete is naturally waterproof (it even grows stronger in seawater).



      A fascinating article is "The Rock Solid History of Concrete" by Jonathan Schifman for Popular Mechanics. I strongly recommend reading it.



      And cost is always an object



      Construction methods are always impacted by more than the materials being used — and the cost of any construction method will always be a prime driver of how something is built. Yes, safety, utilization, etc. must all be met. But you don't spend more than you must to do anything. After 150 years (the time you specify in your question), there are many other things that will need replacement. The electrical, plumbing, and ventilation systems, and the transport platform (road, rail, etc.) come immediately to mind — and that assumes that the need for the tunnel exists after 150 years. The U.S. interstate highway system did not exist before 1956 (only 63 years ago) and yet roads have been resurfaced, redesigned, rerouted, and rebuilt considerably during the last 25 years. There are unused railway tunnels all over the country. There are unused, redesigned, and rebuilt subway tunnels all over the world. Perhaps the only kind of tunnel that would need to survive longer than 150 years is a buried aqueduct.



      The convenience of concrete makes it nearly impossible to dislodge as the principle building material in the foreseeable future. Reinventing Roman concrete and reinforcing it with carbon fiber rather than iron rebar would be a much more economical, practical, and probable future than using granite.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        No




        • Granite does not appear everywhere. It is not the principle substance removed from the vast majority of tunnels (only from the majority of deep tunnels). Shifting to granite as the primary stone for tunnels means quarrying and transporting one of the heaviest types of stone on the planet. That's expensive.


        • It also means cutting, (precision!) shaping, and (precision!) drilling one of the hardest types of stone on the planet. That's also expensive. And unlike continuously-poured concrete, you're stuck with layering bricks or blocks of granite. No matter how you secure it, that alone is a significant weakness (think "earthquake." The planet is always shifting).


        • Pouring a fluid to fit your mold is much, much simpler than chiseling one of the hardest rocks to fit and drilling holes that must align and accommodate curves. Concrete is easily transported, cheaply available, and flexible in its application. Granite is basically none of those things.


        • Concrete is internally reinforceable. Yes, it'll chip more easily than granite. It'll even break more easily than granite. But it's the use of iron rebar that is both the primary strength and the primary weakness — because the metal rusts and expands over time. Replacing the rebar with, oh, carbon fiber woven to match the makeup of rebar solves this problem completely.


        • And that assumes we don't figure out how to reinvent the Roman concrete used to build Sebastos Harbor 2,000 years ago. It's still there. And Roman concrete is naturally waterproof (it even grows stronger in seawater).



        A fascinating article is "The Rock Solid History of Concrete" by Jonathan Schifman for Popular Mechanics. I strongly recommend reading it.



        And cost is always an object



        Construction methods are always impacted by more than the materials being used — and the cost of any construction method will always be a prime driver of how something is built. Yes, safety, utilization, etc. must all be met. But you don't spend more than you must to do anything. After 150 years (the time you specify in your question), there are many other things that will need replacement. The electrical, plumbing, and ventilation systems, and the transport platform (road, rail, etc.) come immediately to mind — and that assumes that the need for the tunnel exists after 150 years. The U.S. interstate highway system did not exist before 1956 (only 63 years ago) and yet roads have been resurfaced, redesigned, rerouted, and rebuilt considerably during the last 25 years. There are unused railway tunnels all over the country. There are unused, redesigned, and rebuilt subway tunnels all over the world. Perhaps the only kind of tunnel that would need to survive longer than 150 years is a buried aqueduct.



        The convenience of concrete makes it nearly impossible to dislodge as the principle building material in the foreseeable future. Reinventing Roman concrete and reinforcing it with carbon fiber rather than iron rebar would be a much more economical, practical, and probable future than using granite.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        No




        • Granite does not appear everywhere. It is not the principle substance removed from the vast majority of tunnels (only from the majority of deep tunnels). Shifting to granite as the primary stone for tunnels means quarrying and transporting one of the heaviest types of stone on the planet. That's expensive.


        • It also means cutting, (precision!) shaping, and (precision!) drilling one of the hardest types of stone on the planet. That's also expensive. And unlike continuously-poured concrete, you're stuck with layering bricks or blocks of granite. No matter how you secure it, that alone is a significant weakness (think "earthquake." The planet is always shifting).


        • Pouring a fluid to fit your mold is much, much simpler than chiseling one of the hardest rocks to fit and drilling holes that must align and accommodate curves. Concrete is easily transported, cheaply available, and flexible in its application. Granite is basically none of those things.


        • Concrete is internally reinforceable. Yes, it'll chip more easily than granite. It'll even break more easily than granite. But it's the use of iron rebar that is both the primary strength and the primary weakness — because the metal rusts and expands over time. Replacing the rebar with, oh, carbon fiber woven to match the makeup of rebar solves this problem completely.


        • And that assumes we don't figure out how to reinvent the Roman concrete used to build Sebastos Harbor 2,000 years ago. It's still there. And Roman concrete is naturally waterproof (it even grows stronger in seawater).



        A fascinating article is "The Rock Solid History of Concrete" by Jonathan Schifman for Popular Mechanics. I strongly recommend reading it.



        And cost is always an object



        Construction methods are always impacted by more than the materials being used — and the cost of any construction method will always be a prime driver of how something is built. Yes, safety, utilization, etc. must all be met. But you don't spend more than you must to do anything. After 150 years (the time you specify in your question), there are many other things that will need replacement. The electrical, plumbing, and ventilation systems, and the transport platform (road, rail, etc.) come immediately to mind — and that assumes that the need for the tunnel exists after 150 years. The U.S. interstate highway system did not exist before 1956 (only 63 years ago) and yet roads have been resurfaced, redesigned, rerouted, and rebuilt considerably during the last 25 years. There are unused railway tunnels all over the country. There are unused, redesigned, and rebuilt subway tunnels all over the world. Perhaps the only kind of tunnel that would need to survive longer than 150 years is a buried aqueduct.



        The convenience of concrete makes it nearly impossible to dislodge as the principle building material in the foreseeable future. Reinventing Roman concrete and reinforcing it with carbon fiber rather than iron rebar would be a much more economical, practical, and probable future than using granite.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 1 hour ago

























        answered 1 hour ago









        JBHJBH

        45.2k696216




        45.2k696216






















            Dev Slocum is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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